Developing as a researcher during PhD

00:00:12: Hello and welcome to today's episode of Chances & Challenges, the BGHS podcast.

00:00:15: I'm your host Sabine Schäfer.

00:00:17: Today we're dealing with a topic that is often ignored yet very important from my point-of-view.

00:00:22: It's about transitions and developments during the PhD process.

00:00:26: i have The impression That We tend To take the PhD phase as A quite stable state Of Being but of course it's a Process Often Running for five Years or even Longer in Germany And today I want to take a look at this process in three regards.

00:00:40: First, the transition from student-to-doctoral researcher.

00:00:44: Second – The role of different funding conditions for doctoral researchers.

00:00:48: Third – The question of role conflicts with supervision relations.

00:00:51: And now let's talk about these issues with Thomas Feist Professor of Sociology of Transnationalization Migration and Development here at Bielefeld University.

00:01:01: Mr.

00:01:01: Feist!

00:01:02: I'm very glad you're here.

00:01:03: Thanks for having me.

00:01:05: You have been a professor for twenty-five years now, and you have supervised lots of completed doctoral dissertations.

00:01:11: And are still supervising some.

00:01:13: so you have broad experiences with transitions and developments in the doctoral process.

00:01:18: But I want to start with a personal question What is it?

00:01:22: Do like most about supervising doctoral dissertations

00:01:30: to go on a journey with the young student, a young doctoral student and explore certain topics, certain fields.

00:01:38: And be enriched!

00:01:39: It's a mutual give-and take process which is very intensive... ...which really gives opportunities not only for students but also for supervisors.

00:01:53: So it perhaps isn't an eye level relationship But it is a relationship where the mutual give and take really provides opportunities to go beyond certain kinds of questions, To make new experiences.

00:02:13: And its very rewarding how students develop over time from students who start their doctoral career in a very insecure fashion, insecure about the theory they want to use.

00:02:28: The empirical methods that you wanna do is not so sure what's going on with the question of finished product dissertation but along-the way and this really fun experience there are lots of unforeseen things happening which sometimes result kind of change-of topic.

00:02:48: Sometimes it's experiences people have make in other countries, so there is sort of personal development going along with that and I think the personal development for the doctoral student and academic development cannot be separated.

00:03:10: But yes but anyway its one And to be a part of that is great privilege.

00:03:21: I really appreciate the privilege, and it's one reason why i became a professor.

00:03:27: Be

00:03:27: able to guide but also learn from doctoral students.

00:03:33: Yeah yeah...I feel same way!

00:03:36: I enjoy my job very much because you accompany people for quite long time.

00:03:44: Yeah, sometimes it's for three years in exceptional circumstances.

00:03:49: Sometimes is four or five years the majority of cases and some times even longer And you need to decide each case what to do?

00:03:57: How to support a student?

00:03:59: not every student needs The same kind of support.

00:04:02: Some students just need reassurance that they're on the right track.

00:04:06: Some students need very intensive supervision talking about the theoretical positioning they need to take, Talking About The Methods They Want To Use.

00:04:17: You Need To Talk With These Students About Every Step That They Take And So There Is A Broad Variety Of Types of Students and The Support They Need.

00:04:27: As a Supervisor you're Going To Find Out Along The Way!

00:04:33: Some Of The Students I Had Where I Thought It Will Be Cake Walk.

00:04:39: It did not turn out to be a cakewalk, it turned out to have been very elaborate and intensive.

00:04:44: And difficult process.

00:04:46: sometimes doctors didn't even dropout at some point in time.

00:04:51: so this is an experience where they learn to maneuver the university's first steps as independent Sort of independent researcher.

00:05:06: and to reach that independence is I think one of the main my main goal.

00:05:12: Yeah, support students to develop into a kind of a research or personality But not only a researcher Also person who interacts and cooperates with others in university.

00:05:27: Yeah That's important.

00:05:28: yeah

00:05:30: That needs to be practiced that needs to been exercised a lot And that's why the format of supervision matters a lot.

00:05:40: The format, I think needs to be interactive in the sense it is not only the interaction between supervisor and student who matters but also among students themselves meaning vertical communication is sort-of important but horizontal communication is uttermost important And that's why I laid a great emphasis on peer groups among the doctoral students, where they support each other not only in giving feedback on each others texts but also really care about each other.

00:06:19: In case someone falls sick and it turned out to be an important element during the corona epidemic pandemic.

00:06:28: so anyway this kind of interaction needs to be furthered, not only in seminars at the university but also outings and excursions.

00:06:41: To have space for really exchange... Not just talking about dissertations by playing ping-pong

00:06:52: or

00:06:53: barbecuing walking, whatever.

00:06:57: There needs to be all these integration of these activities.

00:07:01: and These activities then are not only in outer shell but they're part-and-partial Of the doctoral training.

00:07:11: And the doctoral Training I think really Needs to Be very realistic In The sense that what is it?

00:07:19: The students want To do and have to Do in the end.

00:07:22: in the End It's a written product And this written product has to be prepared.

00:07:29: So I usually made a point that every student needs to present his or her work, a draft chapter of the dissertation each and every semester.

00:07:40: This way The students get to know each other's works.

00:07:45: Then i got to know their work so they don't surprise in end That the dissertation have title.

00:07:56: So that's very important.

00:07:59: Students really have to deliver realistic kind of products, not the ultimate goal but

00:08:11: Okay, so I'd like to come to the first issue of transitions and developments during the PhD process.

00:08:19: And that is the transition from being a student into becoming a doctoral researcher in many cases an academic employee.

00:08:27: In Germany, that means a transition from being student to starting into an academic career because we perceive the PhD phase as first face of professional careers.

00:08:37: Although you were always talking about doctoral students but in fact... We perceived them more or less like researchers I think.

00:08:45: and how do you experience this transition?

00:08:50: In all these persons people are supervised.

00:08:55: I saw a lot of development, not only academically in the sense of learning the ins and outs of being researcher but also acquiring social skills.

00:09:12: you need to work or function as a researcher.

00:09:19: And that is great importance that these social skills are practiced vis-à-vis other doctoral researchers, and vis-a-vis the professors.

00:09:36: There is a great hierarchy in German universities.

00:09:40: Professors like medieval princes... ...and behave like that!

00:09:46: They don't have a crown?

00:09:48: Well an imagined one of

00:09:49: course

00:09:51: but you're right.

00:09:53: And to really deal with these power imbalances is one way of learning the ropes.

00:10:04: But another skill which is equally important, it's to form networks.

00:10:10: Networks amongst doctoral candidates and doctoral researchers... ...and network in the same university or faculty but also networks across universities.

00:10:23: So I encourage doctoral researchers to participate in conferences and workshops early on, so they get to know other people in the same situation in other universities.

00:10:34: And that is of importance.

00:10:36: later on when finished doctoral candidates with dissertation in hand are looking for positions academic research position.

00:10:49: Now, not every doctoral student turns out to be a researcher who stays on in university.

00:10:58: That's another matter.

00:11:00: but all of them should have the opportunity To form networks and need to engage In that kind of exercise.

00:11:08: now that comes along in A way naturally it Should Not Be Forced

00:11:14: But they Need Opportunities

00:11:15: Yeah.

00:11:17: And it's not so much a matter of funding, I think.

00:11:20: Sometimes it is easy to reach certain workshops with very little funding.

00:11:25: So that isn't the point.

00:11:26: You don't need to go to Tokyo necessarily To talk about The spatial turn in social sciences.

00:11:36: It was fun going to Tokyo But there are other opportunities as well.

00:11:44: Dealing with power imbalances, dealing not only professors but the administration is an experience.

00:11:52: Forming networks are something that comes along and people learn a long way while they're in their doctoral phase.

00:12:03: And also really learning to make writing a habit.

00:12:11: What especially in sociology, but also I think history and political science Writing is of the utmost essence.

00:12:20: if you don't write continuously.

00:12:22: You'll have a hard time to come up with products expected of researchers.

00:12:29: so too kind of make writing a steady process a continuing process.

00:12:36: habit which kind of to start the day with, so you speak or end today.

00:12:41: With whatever is something that needs to be learned I think doesn't usually come naturally

00:12:51: yeah and i like it's a habit because in the end there has been no normal thing.

00:13:01: this habit does not mean write for nine hours.

00:13:06: I had a student, a doctoral candidate recently who wrote for one hour per day and he did his dissertation in three years.

00:13:16: Okay!

00:13:18: Meaning it's not the length of time that matters most but you find at right times to sit down free from other commitments and writing is thinking.

00:13:38: And that, I think the core—that's the essence.

00:13:44: Talking about what you write it also important but you need to have something to talk about!

00:13:51: That really is a written product.

00:13:55: Do you perceive differences between people who are socialized in the German academic system and international doctoral researchers, in regard to this transition process?

00:14:10: Some of the German doctoral candidates or doctoral researches do already know some of the ins-and-outs from university.

00:14:20: So they move more swiftly through the corridors.

00:14:25: International candidates usually need a bit more time to get to know the ins and outs, the ropes.

00:14:33: So that's kind of an disadvantage for international students.

00:14:37: but most of them quickly catch up.

00:14:40: Forming networks is another difference perhaps.

00:14:45: The network in German universities are certainly not strictly closed but it's harder for international students to become part of network.

00:14:58: And that makes a difference later on than finding positions, so there is this difference.

00:15:07: But that means the supervisors if you accept International doctoral researchers That take special care To make sure they have certain opportunities

00:15:20: in Network

00:15:21: academically and pay special attention.

00:15:25: So it's a sort of positive action you need to engage with.

00:15:31: there are other groups which have special needs, but international students really especially if they're interested in an academic career need be oriented very early on about the network affairs.

00:15:51: then you'd be informed about the kind of chances they have so that they can build realistic expectations, whether or not it makes sense to look for a position in German universities later on.

00:16:09: Supervisors do have the task to orient all students and researchers but in particular international doctoral researchers.

00:16:22: Yeah, yeah.

00:16:23: and there we have this language issue.

00:16:26: if they don't speak German it's hard to find some permanent position inside academia but especially outside academia although the chances are quite good to get a job afterwards.

00:16:41: But If you Don't Speak Proper German It doesn't Have To Be Perfect.

00:16:47: Yeah, and not all international doctoral researchers do make the effort to learn German.

00:16:53: Once they find out that it's... They need to speak a certain level of German.

00:17:01: They may orient themselves to get positions abroad where English is the soul in language of instruction and communication.

00:17:12: but then beware even in The Netherlands praised as the country of openness.

00:17:24: Young academic researchers, young academic instructors do have to learn Dutch.

00:17:30: they're told you have five years but in reality usually it's one or two year.

00:17:35: yeah.

00:17:36: so uh...you need to cope with language communication at a place where

00:17:43: And

00:17:44: that's also a task for supervisors.

00:17:48: It is very practical, but it has immense implications... ...for the future

00:17:52: career.".

00:17:53: That's right!

00:17:56: The second point I want to discuss with you….

00:17:58: …is connected this first issue and its role in different funding conditions of dissertations.

00:18:05: In public debates, you can get the impression that almost all doctoral researchers in Germany are employed in research.

00:18:12: And there may be academic disciplines where this is the case especially in natural sciences.

00:18:16: but in frame of BGHS which covers history sociology and political science we have about fifty-seven percent academic employees thirteen percent of doctoral researcher who gets a scholarship who work outside of academia, get unemployment benefits or have private funding.

00:18:36: And often the status changes throughout the PhD process.

00:18:39: that means a position ends and then you get perhaps unemployment benefits and after that you work perhaps outside academia.

00:18:47: so there's change in this status.

00:18:50: So the situation is much more diverse.

00:18:53: You'll have supervised people in all these conditions.

00:18:56: Do you perceive these differences?

00:19:00: Well, each and every kind of situation requires a different approach.

00:19:06: Both on the part of students... ...and in terms of the supervisor.

00:19:10: On the parts of students if they get funding from party foundations like Heinrich Böll or Konrad Adenauer or Friedrich Ebert

00:19:20: etc.,

00:19:23: I usually make them aware that years are short-term.

00:19:29: and that they need to consider.

00:19:32: So towards the end of the stipend, I usually have intense talks with them on how really make sure we get funding for finishing the dissertation.

00:19:47: There are a limited number opportunities but all the doctoral researchers who come across whose work i've supervised found a way to finance their dissertation, even with unemployment benefits sometimes.

00:20:03: So I think it needs to be talked about and openly tabled by the supervisor not waiting until the researcher comes along and asks for help.

00:20:19: It needs to part of an ongoing conversation.

00:20:25: International students are funded by a foundation.

00:20:29: Later on, they get employment in a university like Bielefeldt.

00:20:34: I usually tell the researchers that it's not impossible to get funding.

00:20:41: They just need really make sure That the timeline is realistic.

00:20:50: You need time To apply and be selected.

00:20:54: So, the problem is not to get funding.

00:20:58: The problem is to get the right kind of funding and really prepare in advance And that a supervisor usually knows how game goes.

00:21:09: In fact, I or we in the BGHS.

00:21:12: We experience sometimes this surprise of the doctoral researchers that the funding runs out and the dissertation is not complete.

00:21:23: And yeah This causes a lot of stress and pressure.

00:21:28: But you have to be prepared That this might happen.

00:21:31: Yeah i look at it from very optimistic point.

00:21:37: I had to finance myself when i was a doctoral student at the new school for social research year by year through university funding and stipends, through the funding of benefactors each and every year.

00:21:57: And it worked!

00:21:59: You just have to really focus on that.

00:22:03: That's why based my own experience although the U.S and German contexts are very different, I know that there are problems when funding runs out.

00:22:16: but you can always find a solution even if it's in remote land somewhere.

00:22:24: Yeah yeah But sometimes i have this self-confidence is lacking in some people.

00:22:35: I have the same situation that you had, i had to finance my dissertation myself and always found something good work not in research necessarily but it was always a great job.

00:22:56: so With while the funding runs out and what will I do next?

00:23:01: This was something.

00:23:02: I could deal with very, very well.

00:23:04: But there's in some people There is so much stress with this with this issue Even when they still have one year of funding They start to get you know Stress.

00:23:18: What will happen after this here where i think Well a years long time So that can then

00:23:24: Anything.

00:23:25: Yeah, and I think as soon a supervisor notices that there is stress he or she needs to talk with the doctor or researcher.

00:23:34: It's not that the supervisor Can be expected to solve each and every problem.

00:23:39: That's not the case.

00:23:41: But what the supervisor needs to do?

00:23:43: Is to alert the student that he or She knows And will help As much as here she can.

00:23:52: that's what matters.

00:23:53: That is the support we can give and sometimes you don't need to give a lot of support depending on the type of funding.

00:24:02: let me explicate.

00:24:05: for example there are these collaborative research projects like the Collaborative Research Center, The Sonderforschungsbereiche.

00:24:13: if you work in one of this SonderForschungs Bereiche as a doctor researcher your chances and adequate employment in academia are very high.

00:24:28: It used to be the gold standard, now I'm not so sure what the gold standards is.

00:24:33: Excellent clusters of European research council funding

00:24:36: etc.,

00:24:38: but we should be aware that students have better chances to get into certain positions, compared with those who rely on funding from party foundations solely.

00:24:58: But that kind of context is only one factor which really accounts for the position researchers find.

00:25:12: there are others like what you mentioned before self-confidence in one's work.

00:25:19: I'm of the opinion that researchers, doctoral researches need to be encouraged... ...to think independently.

00:25:30: What do i mean?

00:25:31: If they have questions.. ..I am not in a position to answer them all of them even if I can!

00:25:38: Even when I think I haven't answered.

00:25:41: So my position is rather say you find out You will find out And That in a way means to encourage them, do their own search and position themselves because self-confidence also relates two factors such as finding an approach.

00:26:03: To the question you want answer And that takes some confidence to position yourself not as a Marxist or neoliberal something but someone who take freely and innovatively, from concepts and theories available to approach his or her topic.

00:26:26: And try to answer his question... That needs to be strengthened!

00:26:33: Too close of a supervision is counterproductive I don't find, if a supervisor wants to read and correct every sentence student writes or doctoral researcher writes it's not only a lot of work.

00:26:52: I'm not so sure we do him-or her service but that in way concerns the philosophy of supervision.

00:27:05: did some my fieldwork for my dissertation in Chicago.

00:27:08: when i arrived at University I talked to a professor in whose care i was, so-to speak while doing field work and he said ah the supervisor you're working with.

00:27:24: You never know who is how the dissertations look like.

00:27:30: they are also different but there's his colleague at the same university you are Now, both of the supervisors were at that time well-known researchers.

00:27:46: Very respected and well regarded in their fields but they're philosophy of supervision was so different.

00:27:55: now I chose The Right One because i didn't want someone to tell me every day yeah week what do you?

00:28:03: But there needs to be very space And there are supervisors who want to supervise more closely and wanna make sure that the school they build is passed on.

00:28:19: As a doctoral researcher, I have to find out what's best for me?

00:28:24: That process which isn't very easy to maneuver because usually you don't know about these differences when start your doctoral career

00:28:34: Yeah, and sometimes you even don't know what kind of supervision.

00:28:37: You really want yeah because you have to experience What it is like perhaps?

00:28:45: Yeah I remember the first chapter of my dissertation The first draft of a chapter my dissertation.

00:28:51: i submitted It To My supervisor And i expected him to comment on it.

00:28:58: He commented On it but in A way very different from what i expected.

00:29:03: he said Yeah, Thomas.

00:29:04: That chapter had to be written.

00:29:07: go on write

00:29:08: okay.

00:29:10: So I took that as a kind of encouragement To simply right the dissertation and i simply wrote it.

00:29:17: And uh That is not The way each and every student can

00:29:22: go about.

00:29:23: yeah.

00:29:24: so As a doctor or researcher?

00:29:27: I think there's A lot to learn and one Of the things you learn Is How do you interact and how much supervision to unique?

00:29:37: And that is also important for later on, For your career.

00:29:43: How you interact with fellow researchers.

00:29:47: That's something we learn along the way.

00:29:50: So in a way The doctoral researcher position Is I think most central period of learning for any kind of research.

00:30:06: It's the formative phase.

00:30:09: During the BA and MA phase, you're not really asked to position yourself that clearly.

00:30:15: but in the dissertation phase You are asked do so...you have make some choices And making these choices defines your position In the field.

00:30:30: it is a point-of departure.

00:30:33: Maybe later on you get away from this point of departure, hopefully.

00:30:39: But it's a start.

00:30:41: and the

00:30:42: things... It is a journey in a way right?

00:30:45: The thing that we learn about how to get an article published or how do publish your dissertation these are all skills you need later.

00:30:55: so its first period when making this experience with publishers, university press or other presses.

00:31:03: With journals and so on... And I found that quite disturbing sometimes but also quite enlightening.

00:31:17: So i think there needs to be the right mix of support and letting the doctoral researcher do what he has in her mind not preparing everything.

00:31:31: The researcher needs to have some space.

00:31:34: To develop on his

00:31:36: own, that's right now.

00:31:39: I would like to come to the third issue which might be a bit delicate its role conflicts Which might result from the other issues we talked about in Germany?

00:31:49: We have an ongoing debate about role conflicts and the supervision relation That might even in the worst case Even result in the abuse of power.

00:31:59: Generally, the supervisor is also a reviewer of the dissertation and in many cases he or she might even be the boss for example if the doctoral researcher works on research project.

00:32:09: So role conflicts may occur at both sides – The Doctoral Researcher & Professor.

00:32:14: What happens when somebody becomes a researcher from your point?

00:32:19: Well I think that as a supervisor also emotional ties to doctoral students.

00:32:33: It's not emotional in the sense of private affairs, it is emotionally in this sense that I care about intellectual and professional development.

00:32:45: so right after the dissertation its kind a continuation of supervisory relationship or properly.

00:33:00: And it's wonderful to see then that students who become research, doctor researchers would then become researchers find their own way and they are then independent.

00:33:16: but we make it hard for them to be independent because of the hierarchies in offered more assistant professor positions, for example.

00:33:32: It would be easy for them to emancipate but the very fact that most of those are postdocs in employment relationships with their former or other professors makes it hard to become fully-fledged autonomous researcher personalities.

00:33:53: so I think needs to be reformed.

00:33:57: There have been efforts to do so, but I don't see the real breakthrough.

00:34:04: So unless kind of system changes it's hard for the doctoral researchers to emancipate.

00:34:13: They usually come from being supervised in the doctoral research To sort-of controlled postdoctoral

00:34:21: research

00:34:23: And that is not right.

00:34:24: That's counterproductive.

00:34:27: We waste a lot of talent and time after the dissertation, I think we should assume that the researcher—the former doctoral researcher can be an autonomous researcher —and give him or her the space to do so not in independent postdoctoral position but in an independent one.

00:34:55: But the road conflict still is there even if I am glad that a doctor research has finished his or dissertation and found employment somewhere.

00:35:08: I Still have a hard time sometimes to let go.

00:35:15: And That in a way, the supervisor relationship can then turn into.

00:35:23: it goes well into a kind of senior-junior researcher relationship where the junior researcher uses the experience of the senior researcher to get ahead and do his or her work.

00:35:41: That, I think is ideal.

00:35:44: so the doctoral supervision is transformed in to a collegial one when you still have power relationships where you still have a junior and senior position, but where the collegiality is there.

00:36:03: And for me, collegialities are the essence both in relation to peers of my own age professional age or career age into younger ones.

00:36:16: As long as some sort of collegialty is kept I think Then there's nothing wrong in continuing a sort of relationship between the former doctoral researcher and the former supervisor.

00:36:31: Yeah, yes And I mean In that case hierarchy can also be very supportive.

00:36:37: Yeah

00:36:38: hierarchy doesn't mean that it is bad A Bad relationship or something like that?

00:36:44: Sometimes It is the case that senior researcher not only has the experience, but certain kinds of relationships he or she can use to better off the former doctoral researcher.

00:37:01: And that is I think important.

00:37:05: and junior researchers post-doctoral researchers actively always look for senior ones to support them.

00:37:17: endless letters of recommendation sometimes.

00:37:23: But that's the business, right?

00:37:28: That may then support a real conflict somehow taken but I have not come across a situation where i think The relationship to the former doctor or researcher has stagnated.

00:37:46: it May sometime simply be over but not in a way that it's continued the same way.

00:37:56: If its continuing very similar ways, then the former doctor or researcher is carrying their bags and all of the weights off to senior work.

00:38:07: And thats one sided relationship where there isn't a lot of intellectual exchange.

00:38:15: It s interesting as well!

00:38:19: So... To make long story short There is a variety of relationships I can think off after the doctoral phase, and it depends on the needs of junior colleagues.

00:38:33: But without constantly reminding us that the system need to change... ...to give former doctoral researchers a chance to develop more independently.

00:38:49: unless thats done we are always in an awkward position

00:38:55: And this is a perfect close-up, let's say.

00:39:00: Because I have one more question before we come to an end of the talk and do you have some advice for practical advice?

00:39:10: For doctoral researchers or for supervisors?

00:39:14: Well i think both for doctoral researches and supervisors it´s very important at the beginning to make certain things clear.

00:39:27: Namely, what are the expectations the supervisor has towards the supervisee?

00:39:33: and What other expectations?

00:39:34: The doctoral researcher has toward the supervisor?

00:39:38: meaning...what are deliverables?

00:39:42: Maybe not in a kind of plan or schedule because some people like that fine but more in terms of Kind of continuous production of texts.

00:39:53: And that's the expectation I have.

00:39:57: So to make very clear at the beginning, what are one's expectations?

00:40:02: That helps.

00:40:03: and many other aspects of the supervisor in supervisee relationship Are individual To that diet or to the group...I'm not saying anything goes.

00:40:18: definitely nothing goes.

00:40:21: but if the expectations are clear the doctor or researcher has a handle of evaluating if something goes wrong, and if supervisors like me overstep boundaries.

00:40:37: And sees it much more clearly.

00:40:41: I'm not now arguing for multi-supervisor constellation.

00:40:46: that's another matter.

00:40:48: what i think is important than this.

00:40:51: there are also third parties like the BJJS, where the doctoral researcher can get advice independent of the supervisor.

00:41:02: So there needs to be persons and institutions that a doctor or researcher can turn into—and ideally the supervisor although less frequently.

00:41:16: but all parties involved should be able address their third party And that's why I think the role of the BJS is very essential in supporting the supervisor-supervisor relationship.

00:41:31: Yeah, i think so too!

00:41:32: Not controlling it closely but being there to help when there are discords and conflicts then I think such an institution makes a difference.

00:41:48: Yeah, as a mediator perhaps or something.

00:41:51: and to make things more transparent yeah?

00:41:57: And to make these more transparent should also be the goal of the supervisor... Should!

00:42:03: We are not always doing that but if we strive towards it a lot can be done in kind of development I've been enjoying to see among doctoral students is so rewarding that it really outstrips all the costs.

00:42:29: It's something work with younger researchers, seeing new opportunities...it's not seeing the The kind of steps they take and the problems.

00:42:51: They solve along that way.

00:42:53: That's the fun part.

00:42:55: It's like building a puzzle And you don't know how it looks like until the very end.

00:43:02: Yeah, yeah,

00:43:04: and that's always a surprise.

00:43:06: there are elements of surprise in their and what I think personally is If I can keep my curiosity alive, uh...I can also appreciate the curiosity of younger researchers.

00:43:24: And i think curiosity is the most important skill here.

00:43:31: We can talk about practical skills

00:43:33: The

00:43:33: habit of writing

00:43:33: which are very

00:43:34: important But at the foundation it's a curiosity.

00:43:38: but how does that work?

00:43:42: That is ultimately I think, and speaking for myself now.

00:43:49: It's ultimately the goal that's to be there...that's the aim of the supervisor And that's why it can be rewarding on both sides.

00:44:02: The magic word from me is curiosity.

00:44:05: Okay Yeah thanks a lot for this talk!

00:44:09: It was really great having you here.

00:44:11: Thanks so much for having me.

00:44:13: The PhD phase is a time of development.

00:44:16: Thomas Feist made that very clear, Development as researcher and person And the supervisor can support this process not by solving the doctoral researchers problems but showing interest in research project sharing experiences encouraging to build network also writing recommendation letters so that the doctoral researcher self confidence grows.

00:44:37: I really learned a lot from today's talk about the role The Supervisor can take in this developmental process, and i hope you enjoyed it as much.

00:44:47: There is quite another number of other episodes on our podcast dealing with doctoral supervision – perhaps you'd like to listen too!

00:44:54: You'll find links below.

00:44:56: If you've enjoyed todays episode please share it with your colleagues.

00:45:00: And as always, we'd like to hear about your thoughts.

00:45:03: If you have any questions comments or suggestions for future topics send us an email at bghsatuni-bielefeldt.de.

00:45:13: Thank You For Tuning In and until next time – Optimism!

00:45:17: Have faith in yourself make the best of chances & challenges on your academic journey.